A Calling to Serve: From Ministry to Mortuary Science Podcast Episode Transcript

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Welcome to the Remembering a Life podcast. I'm your host, Gail Marquardt. Today I'm joined by John Hill. John is a licensed undertaker in six states based in North Carolina. He serves as the clinical coordinator and instructor for Pierce Mortuary Colleges, which includes Gupton Jones College of Funeral Service, Dallas Institute of Funeral Service, and MidAmerica College of Funeral Service. In addition to his academic role, John works at James Funeral Home and North Lake Memorial Gardens in Huntersville, just outside Charlotte. He is also the owner of Hill Mortuary Services and Seminars specializing in trade, embalming restorative arts, and continuing education for funeral service professionals. Thank you so much for joining me today, John.

JOHN HILL:
Thank you for having me, Gail. It's an honor to be here.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
So sometimes I ask funeral directors, what is your typical day like? And then they kind of laugh because there is no such thing. But what has your day looked like so far? What have you been busy with this week?

JOHN HILL:
So that is a great question and it's definitely all over the place because we play so many different roles. When you say you're an undertaker, you're also a first call dispatcher because you answer the phones for the first call. You also are the embalmer, you are also a chemists. I have to know those things. You're also the janitor to where you clean up and make sure everything is proper in the building. You're also an event planner where you're guiding families for the funeral services. You're also the printer because you got to print out bulletins and all of these things, transportation. So our week has been very full and very busy. And on top of that, my role in education to where I'm the clinical coordinator and also teach classes and with my trade business we have trade and bombing. So it's been very, very busy.

Just today we've been in meetings with the school, but then at three o'clock here I'll be teaching courses for embalming. But then we have trade calls to do this evening. Just a couple of nights ago, I didn't get home until about 2:00 AM and I actually was pretty intriguing driving home. I actually saw a truck that carries caskets. It's a casket company, and I saw the sign on the side Batesville, and I'm thinking I'm not the only one up this late at night doing things for the funeral home. So that's been my typical week so far. Basically we eat, sleep and breathe funeral service, but I love it. It's the greatest decision I've ever made outside of my faith and outside of family. And so it is definitely something that I love to do and I love all the aspects of funeral service. So that's been my quote, typical day in funeral service.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
So you probably unintentionally made a little segue there. I have to have some insight information that this is not your first career, right? And that you were a minister prior to this. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey and how it led you to funeral service?

JOHN HILL:
Absolutely. So I've always felt impressed to be in ministry since I was very young. I went to seminary school and then right outside of seminary school I pastored my church and then was there for a very long time, but I felt led that it was time for me to resign. So when I resigned the church, I had all intentions of getting back into the ministry at another church but didn't know where and in the time I needed a job. And so I literally looked in the closet and saw all my suits hanging there, and I thought to myself, where could I work wearing all these suits? And it literally dawned on me, you could say it was an epiphany, you can say I was enlightened, whatever you want to say. It literally dawned on me that I could work at a funeral home for the time being because I had worked in funerals so many other times before that funeral homes has asked for my services to help in services for people that didn't have a pastor or an officiant to lead the services.

So I was like, that's what I could do. And we applied for funeral home there in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I had always walked into the front of the house of the funeral home, but never in the back of the house. And walking through the back of the house is different because it is there where the privacy takes place of handling and sacredly carrying for the dead. And so it was there that I was first initiated, so to speak, or saw the reality of handling and caring with utmost dignity and honor the dead. And I had seen memberships and parishioners die in my church before, but this was my first taste of how real and how raw death actually can be. And I'll be upfront with you. It kind of made me a little quy, a little lightheaded as if with anybody, because we get people all the time that tell us, I don't know how you handle what you do.

I can't believe what you do. And I see why. So that was my first quote, taste of that. But I got accustomed to being around and caring for the dead. And it was when I saw my very first embalming from start to finish and I saw the transformation of the dead is when I was led into funeral service. That's when I knew I was called. That's when I knew I was chosen to do this for the rest of my life. And it's been something I've never looked back on after that I've enrolled in mortuary school and been pushing forward ever since just to try to be better and to be the best at what I do not. So I can say I'm the best. That has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with my drive of ministry, being ministry minded of helping families during the most darkest and most difficult time in their life of having to bury their loved one, someone so special and close to them. And so that's why we enjoy what we do and love what we do. It's because we are helping families during their worst time and that's why we have to be the best. And so that's my background with ministry and why I guess I'm so goal oriented and just keep pushing forward to be better and just keep moving forward because I had that mindset as a minister to want to help people. And I've guided that into being an undertaker.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Well, and we find that a lot of people who are going into funeral service as a second or third, sometimes even fourth career, often come from those service industries, nurses, law enforcement. But you're the first person I've talked to who has come from a faith background to funeral service. Can you talk a little bit more about how those two might dovetail for you?

JOHN HILL:
Well, it dovetails quite a bit because a lot of the families that we see are people of faith. They have certain rituals. It may not be of the same faith as I, but they have certain ceremonial rituals that they want to adhere to in taking care of their dead. So it actually very much coincides together because we serve people from all sex of faith, even if they're non-religious or they're secular, that in itself is a religious standpoint and their viewpoint and their theology worldview. So it very much in whatever faith-based person is, it really does dovetail into that. You have to have that mindset of serving families and helping them in whatever they desire to honor and to fulfill their faith. And that ritual that is so meaningful to them that when the services are concluded, not just yourself but the family says, we have done the right thing for our loved one, we've done the right thing for our dead. We took this time, we took this space in order to take care of them. And in turn, it takes care of themselves as well as they move forward without their loved one.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
That must be really a rewarding and amazing feeling to have after a service. Can you talk a little bit about a unique funeral that you coordinated for a family? Do you tend to have pretty traditional funerals in your area? And what might you do to make those special and meaningful?

JOHN HILL:
So we do have a lot of traditional services, so to speak, to where the casket is present to where there's a viewing. And let me say that just because it's traditional, that doesn't mean that it's outdated. I believe more than ever before, especially in this day and time, it is more relevant and it is more needed now for families to see they're dead than ever before. I know we live in a day and time where people don't want to have that mindset and they're fearful or scared of that, but there's no closure. And these same families that decided not to have any type of viewings or anything, it's been proven that many months later they're still grieving and they're still having unsatisfaction and emptiness because they didn't have that final goodbye or moment with their loved one. So that is very, very pivotal in what we do.

And so in answering your question, even though we do traditional services like that, we do tailor it to be very personable. I get asked to do a lot of officiating and when I do, I tailor it to the individual and then put a quote splash of religion. If they want me to read certain readings, I'll do that. So that's one way we can tailor it. I talk about the individual's name and what the individual's name means and tie it into their character. We do all those types of things. I take individual's name and then I actually make their name into an acrostic, and each letter of their name means a certain character about their life. To really personalize that, I find out a lot of times what their favorite candy is, and we give out that favorite candy during the service, please take one in honor of Mr.

And Mrs. Smith, whoever it is. And then they set out certain memorabilia or certain tokens that reminds them of that. Those are big deals. And then especially if there's flowers that is laid out, I invite the family to take a flower to take it home with them to remind them of they're dead and they can dry it out and it stays with them throughout the rest of time. So we definitely try to tailor services to be more personable. We did services where someone loved ice cream. Well, we had ice cream during the reception. Somebody loved tacos like me, I'm a big Taco Bell fan. Well, we had a taco bar for their reception. It's things like that that you think outside the box on that makes things special. We've had people who were firemen and we put special tokens or memorabilia on the casket that says they were a fireman. It's little things like that that families will remember that the funeral home went and did the extra mile for that, sees those details. So yes, in answering your question, even though there are services we do that are traditional, we do a lot of personalization with the traditionals and even if they're non-traditional, we definitely try to tailor it to where the family knows that when you leave there, it's not just a faith-based ritual. It's about the individual that we're honoring.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
That's wonderful. Makes a lot of sense. You touched on the viewing of the body. Obviously the ultimate decision for anyone on that topic is a very personal one, but how do you talk through that with a family to make sure they understand why it might be valuable and of course, that this is the one opportunity to do that, right,

JOHN HILL:
Absolutely. So everybody's viewing experience is going to be different because there are families that we serve now that their need is not to have a visitation or an open casket service, for instance, there are many people who are transients to this area. They're not from this area, they don't have family in this area, they've just moved here. And so instead of them placing that value on an open casket, what we can do is right before their final disposition, whether it's cremation or a burial, whatever it is, we can have them see them personally and see them in an intimate way. And I can explain that in the arrangement conference. One other way that we do have the privilege of trying to help families see them is we do actually need as a funeral home need identification. Even though we do properly identify everyone that comes into our care, we are there personally on the calls.

We are there at the hospital, we're there at the homes, whatever, to make sure that the individual we're bringing to our care is properly identified before they are buried. We like for someone to see them in the casket, even if it's going to be a closed casket, because that way families know beyond a shadow of a doubt that when they go to the burial site, even though that casket will be closed, they will know it's their loved one in the casket. Because I always say this to them, I was like, I don't care what you think. Now I understand now you may not want to see them, and that's a personal choice, but when you get to that graveside and that casket is closed, you are always going to wonder what do they look like in that casket? And even is that even them in the casket?

But they will have those mindsets at peace and they can have that closure if one person in the family or a few others were able to see them and then they asked them how were things and then that could actually help. And we've actually had to where the individual saw them on a basis like that individual basis and they come back and say, they look so good, or Wow, they look like they're just asleep. And then people are more intrigued and they want to see them and it actually helps them. So that's how I guide families in that way. And that twofold is to explain to them the value of that, to be able to see them and I say, are you sure? Just think it through six months from now, we don't want you to look back and think about that. But then I always say whether they're going to be buried or cremated, whatever their disposition is that someone does need to identify them and see them just so you have that security and assurance that we are taking care of them.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
And it can be very comforting. I've shared this on a couple other episodes. I think when my aunt died, my mom went up to look at her body and my aunt had been really sick for a while and my mom came back to the pew and said, well, that's the best. She's looked in a long time. And that's a huge,

JOHN HILL:
That's wonderful to hear.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Yeah, huge compliment to whoever did the embalming, but even more importantly, really gave her peace and helped her I think, acknowledge the death as well.

JOHN HILL:
Absolutely, absolutely. And so many stories of people who had their love on their special person in their life and their special meaning of life die unexpectedly or they wasn't there when they died and they never got a chance to see 'em again. And there's always that void that they have. There's always, man, I wish I had that final moment. And they're just gone. It's like, bam, they're here one day and then bam, they're gone and you don't ever see 'em again. There's something about seeing the dead that does help the emotional aspect and psyche of your grief as you move forward without them. And that acceptance of the reality of death is a huge factor and one of the greatest, if not the greatest value that we do as a funeral home.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Did you see any shift after the pandemic during a time when we couldn't be with our loved ones when they were in the hospital, perhaps couldn't be with them when they died. Funerals were obviously very different. Did you see any shift in that afterwards?

JOHN HILL:
Yes, there was a shift to where some families, that's the norm now, but then there were some families that was very bothered and they're wanting more of those services or they don't want to take for granted having services again. And so we have seen a shift in that, but I think that has everything to do as well with not just the community. I think that has a lot to do with the funeral home and educating the public, especially in the pre-need aspects, especially when you do community events where a funeral director is speaking to a crowd or things of that nature. The funeral director in the funeral home needs to believe in what we do and we offer a valuable service. We have seen that shift to where people have come back to want a more thorough service and see the value in

GAIL MARQUARDT:
That. And we always want what we can't have too. A lot of people

JOHN HILL:
Absolutely

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Whose loved ones died may have had the mindset of, I don't need to see people's bodies after they die, but then they couldn't. Excellent point. So let's talk a little bit about the educator side of what you do. Can you talk a little bit about what that all involves?

JOHN HILL:
So my role is the clinical coordinator there at the school, and there's a lot involved with that because we are held to high education standards, just like your community colleges, just like your major universities that have to be accredited. We have an accreditation process and that's done through the American Board of Funeral Service Education. Also, there are certain standards that after a student has graduated a certain percentage and it's a very high percentage, has to pass their national board exams. And if that percentage is not met, the school can be under probation. And even worse, if it doesn't continue to perform like it's supposed to, the accreditation is then taken away. So there's a lot of high standards that's involved with that and it can be very rigorous and it's very time consuming, but it's for the assurance that the students are getting the proper education that is needed in order for them to become a licensed funeral director and embalmer.

So you have all of those foundational aspects to education, and then you have the teaching aspect and the instructing aspect where the students are receiving all of their instructions and they are instructed from the foundations of funeral service. But then they also have their general education requirements such as English or computer work or accounting work, some general psychology work. They get all of that and then they get into their core classes where they learn about funeral directing. They they're learning about funeral merchandising, they're learning about the embalming, the restorative artwork. They're learning about all the aspects of funeral service and cremation is now involved with that, the different dispositions involved with that. So you have all of these aspects with the instruction side, but it's not just with digital work now and with learning in the classroom, there's the experiential side, and that's more of what I do because a lot of students do a lot of their experiential work, not in the classroom.

They do a lot of it at their own funeral homes. And so one of my jobs is to make sure that their funeral homes are updated, that they have proper funeral homes, they're doing their work, whether it's meeting with a family or going on a funeral. And then also they do their embalmings at their funeral homes. So that's the experiential side that we help them with as well. And all of this is to prepare them to be licensed. All this is preparing them to take their national board exams, as we mentioned earlier, to get them ready and prep for that. And as soon as they pass all those, then they can be a licensed funeral director. So there's a lot that's just in a nutshell of the education, but there's so much more intel with that. And education is far different than what it used to be because we still have on-campus students that come to the school and learn inside the classroom.

But I would say probably 80 to 90% of our students now are all online. Every one of them have online learning. And so we do a lot of online work and we email and we have a lot of digital videos that we do. I'll be lecturing here soon, and when I lecture, I do it through a virtual lecture. And there are students that log into that. And if students can't make it to that, it is recorded so the students can watch that lecture when there are certain due dates that they have throughout the quarter. So it's a lot different education wise than what it used to be, but there's still some on campus learning that they have to do, such as they have to be certified for their embalmings to ensure that the embalmings they've done at their funeral homes has been proper and they haven't lied to us the whole time saying they've done all this work. It kind of proves that they have done the work. And also they come on campus for their restorative artwork as well to make sure they know how to do that and then other things to ensure that they've actually done the work at their funeral homes.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Yeah, I'm hearing that from a lot of more choice science schools, that there's a lot of online learning, which is great for people who may not be able to get to a campus for whatever reason or live a ways away. That's great. So as far as the kinds of people who are enrolled, we know that 70, 75% of graduates are now women, and that about 30% are people of color. Is that what you're seeing in your area?

JOHN HILL:
Well, you're actually wrong about that. From what I gather, it's about 80% female. I think it's more from the last specifics. I got different ethnicities. I'm not updated on that aspect of it, but it definitely is a woman's world now in funeral service. Death has become her, so to speak. Okay. So we definitely are seeing that trend.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
And then are a lot of your students right out of high school are these second, third career folks? What's that? Makeup?

JOHN HILL:
So some are second and third career folks, but a lot are coming straight out of high school as well. So that's what I'm seeing. It's kind of a mix, so to speak. I don't have the exact numbers. I would say probably a little bit more are on the younger side, just getting out of high school or they've been out of high school for maybe a year or two, and then they're getting their feet, so to speak, wet or starting to get into the college realm. So that's what I am seeing, just kind of a mix of those.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Okay. And what advice do you have for people who are considering a career in funeral service but are maybe a little apprehensive about the hours or embalming some of those things?

JOHN HILL:
So I'll say this, if you believe in your heart, anyone that wants to get in the funeral service, if this is what you feel like you need to do, you have that drive or that heart to help people. It's the best decision you'll ever make. It's the greatest decision I've ever made outside of my faith and my family. It is amazing what it's like to serve families. There's a lot of service industries you can be involved with, but there's nothing like it. When you help a family in their worst time knowing that you've helped them and they'll never forget you, they'll never forget what you've done for them throughout the rest of their lives. They'll forget a lot of things, but they won't forget how you treated them and how you handled their loved one. So it is a great decision, but I will say those that are apprehensive, maybe about the embalming, embalming may not be your thing, which is fine because there's a need for good funeral directors and arrangers to sit with families and to lead services.
If all you want to do is the embalming, there's plenty of places all throughout the United States to where you could be at a firm to where all you do is the preparation work, and you could be very much utilized there. For those that are hesitant about the hours of funeral service, let me say that this generation and this day and time of funeral service has got it made in comparison to what it used to be. And I say that because there's a lot more laws and regulations about work and OSHA laws, things like that, labor force laws, and a lot of funeral homes are worried about that. But secondly, back in the day you lived at the funeral home, there was apartments there, people stayed the night, and it's still sent that way in some funeral homes. But in comparison, how it used to be you got it made, you may need to be on call a few nights a week.

We understand that, but that's a part of it. Nurses had to be on call. My sister, she works at a hospital and she works almost every weekend, but even throughout the week, there are times where she has to be on call because that's a part of it. So you do have to understand that you will have late hours, and there will be challenging times, and there'll be times where it's either feast or famine. But the main thing is, is that you see the end results and what the goal is, and the goal is helping families. So if you're apprehensive about any of those things, there are remedies for that. And there are ways about that because nowadays, not every funeral is a full service funeral anymore. Nowadays, when someone is brought into their care, they may not need to be embalmed, they're going to be cremated.
And where we're at, it's about a 50 50%. So it's not a full service funeral, but back in the day, Lord have mercy. Every person that came in was embalmed. I tell this all the time to students that we have it made in comparison how it used to be working up all night throughout the day, and then you're doing funerals all throughout the day and you didn't have time to go in the back to do the preparation work, and you had to wait till at the end of the day. That would be what I would tell people who had these type of concerns. And yes, there's some long hours, but it's just like everywhere else. And the more that you are decorated in what you do, there'll be more demands on you. But that's okay because you're showing your worth, you're showing your value, and then you'll be able to handle it.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Those are really great insights for anyone considering a career in funeral service, kind of a behind the scenes look. So that's great. I have two questions that I ask my guests to end our time together. If you could share a meal with any famous dead person, who would it be and why?

JOHN HILL:
Wow, that is a great question. And honestly, I don't know. Well, I would have to get back with you on that. I mean, when a famous person, he's probably not famous, but he's famous to me as a funeral director, if there's one person I guess I could sit and have a meal with, it would be the president over Gall's funeral home and the funeral director over John f Kennedy's funeral, Joe Hagan. I would love to sit and have a meal with him, him tell me stories of what it's like to be the funeral of the presidents and work at that funeral home. But I'm sure Joe would not say a word to me about any of those services because his lists will be sealed because he's a consummate professional. And those that handle high profile services or any services, they keep that secret anyway. But I would love to have a meal with Joe Hagan for sure.

And few people realize that when John F. Kennedy was assassinated and right before his funeral, he had a viewing, now it was closed casket there, and the rotunda, it was closed casket during his services, but his wife and all of that personal family members got a chance to see him, and they knew that it was him. And they had that final moment with him. And from what I understood, he looked wonderful. And the restorative art specialist did a wonderful job on him. And so that shows the value in what we do. And even as we mentioned before in this podcast about the identification and making sure that that is properly taking place to where people know and there's no wondering about that.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
That's a very appropriate answer for you, I think.

JOHN HILL:
Thank you.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
And my final question, who are you remembering today?

JOHN HILL:
My grandmother. I thinking about my grandmother quite a bit. I have very fond memories of her. She was such a tender, loving grandmother, and my grandfather died when I was just in the 11th grade, but she lived 25 years, almost 30 years past that. And it was such an honor to go visit with her. And then the moment that she died, and it was during COVID, it was our privilege to take care of her, handle all of her services from start to finish. So it is my grandmother who I think of often and who I wish a lot of ladies could emulate and be. She was just a fine example of not just a faith, but a fortitude of focus and insight. She was definitely a great example of how women should be in this day and time because she was a woman who loved her husband, loved her children, but at the same time, she was very independent, stood on her own two feet, and wasn't ashamed of her role, and wasn't ashamed of who she was. And I believe a lot of ladies could learn from her on that.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
Well, thank you so much for sharing that story. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with us about your career?

JOHN HILL:
I think that hopefully this interview just shows how meaningful it is to serve families and how I truly believe in what we do as a funeral home and in funeral service, not just the aspect of getting the dead where they need to go, but get the living where they need to be. And that's a famous quote by one of the famous funeral directors, Thomas Lynch here in America. And I tell this to students all the time, and I tell this to everyone all the time, you will lose your love for funeral service. You'll get burned out on it unless you have the mindset that it's about serving the families and it's about helping families. If you just do it just to handle the dead or just as a job or just to clock in, clock out, it's going to fade fast. You're going to lose the fizz.

It's going to get stale on you. But there is nothing like it when you take care of a family, especially from start to finish. And there's nothing like it when I walk them in to see their loved one for the first time after they have died, and they see them in a better way than the last time I saw 'em at the moment of death when it was more real, more raw than what it was. But we're able to give them that opportunity to see they're in a more peaceful and restful way. There's nothing like it, and you see the value in what we do. So that's what I would love to leave with on that note is it's a wonderful thing to do what you love, if that's what you're meant to do.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
I think that's a wonderful way to close our conversation today. And John, I really appreciate you spending time with me to talk about your career, and thank you for the incredibly important work that you do. And thank you for being with me today.

JOHN HILL:
Thank you, Gail. It's been truly an honor to be with you.

GAIL MARQUARDT:
For more information about remembering loved ones, visit remembering a life.com. And if John inspired you today about looking into being a funeral director, visit remembering a life.com/careers for more information and inspiration.